Any ideas??? Now i'm having trouble with sleep

My daighter has always been a perfect sleeper, never any problems.

For the first 6 weeks she slept in her moses basket in our room next to me, then we moved her from there in to our bed for about 4 months, then when she started moving we put her back in to her moses basket for safety and now she has outgrown that we moved her cot in to our room and put her in that last saturday 12th sept.

However since then she has stopped going through. She's now waking every time her dummy falls out her mouth and extremely early for milk. She used to sleep through from 11pm till 9am but is now getting to bed at 2am and waking up at 6am and having very disturbed sleep which isnt only causing her issues during the day (loooong naps) but its also affecting me and with me trying to find work again its throwing problems up in the air because i cannot go back to work if shes going to keep her daddy up.

Yesterday i cut all of her naps short she has one in the morning and one in the afternoon and a quicky power nap at 6pm because i thought she'd sleep better but it hasnt changed anything.

She's got her teeth so its not teething, could it be a growth spurt??

She's always been able to fall asleep in strange unfamilar places with no problems and has always managed to sleep long in the places. The cot should not have been an issue.

I'm starting to loose my patience because its not nice going back to only getting three hours kip!!

Marina:)

It's always hard going back to broken nights but it usually happens to all of us. You say she has all of her teeth.. she has all of her molars as well? it could possibly be a growth spurt.. could you do a list of what she's eating/drinking during the day.. there may be a tweak needed.

Cutting down on naps never works and usually has the opposite affect... at 6 months she should still be having a morning and afternoon nap one long and one fairly short... I still get a couple of hours in the afternoon from my toddler nap wise.

Does she go down in her cot awake to settle herself to sleep or does she get put to bed asleep?

Her front teeth are through, those that were bothering her anyway and she hasnt shown any signs of fussing about it! She was chewing on her hands for a while thts no all stopped.

Shes eating 3ozs of baby food three times a day and then having about 4ozs of bottle. She was on 6ozs of bottle before the food. She's eating well.

I've tried laying her down in her cot to go to sleep but she ends up fiddling with things and rolling on to her belly and then crying because shes not in a good position. Shes currently learning to crawl so eager to master this gets herself in to all sorts of odd angles and parts of the cot. I've had to use a bumper so she doesnt bash her head.

However her standard routine is that she comes upstairs with me about 8pm gets in her jimmies plays downstairs till about 10pm then she comes upstairs with me in to our bed where she will play quietly with her teddy and watch telly and then she lays down this is generally her indication that shes ready for her cot.

I will place her in the cot quietly and swiftly and she will then suddenly spring to life and be up again for a few more hours. Its like its so new and exciting sort of behaviour. I've tried leaving her to play in the cot knowing she cannot come to mischief and hoping that she will just lay down and sleep.
I've even tried preheating her cot with a wheatbag and then taking it out and replacing it with her. Because our bed will be warm and then the cot will be cold i thought this might be jolting her awake.

I'm at a loss. Because of her lousy nights sleep last night she had a 4 hour nap this morning a good three hours this afternoon and shes not had her power nap as she was woken by noises.5 mins after laying down.
She sleeps in her play pen/travel cot during the day which has the same dimensions as her cot so its not like shes unused to being able to stretch out.

Marina:)

They can become little sods when hitting a development leap but this sounds like she's just got the art of manipulation of mummy down to a tee

First it's time to introduce an earlier bedtime.. she's at that age now where if you don't get her out of the habit now then it'll be harder to crack.

I would suggest that doing the bedtime routine at 8 then putting her in her cot at 8.30 to start with.. put her down and leave the room for a couple of minutes and see what she does.. be firm with her, don't pick her up and leave the room for longer time each time.. takes about a week to crack if you stick with it and can be hell but it's worth it. It sounds as if she needs a lot more sleep than what she's getting.

What I do is bathtime then bedtime.... 8.30 it's into the cot with a little lamp on... if you do this every single night (bar illness) then they learn quickly that you're not messing, that they arn't going to be played with or taken downstairs and there's no point in fussing. If she plays in her cot then let her.. once she learns how to self sooth bedtimes will come a lot easier.

Could you maybe hand the reigns over to daddy and see how he does for bedtime.. men i've found can sometimes get a better result as they're more no nonsense.

Berluddy hell, she goes to bed late!!
Our evenings are sacrosanct - M goes down from 7 at night until 7.30 in the morning and although I love the bones of him, that fact that our evenings are our own and baby-free makes it all a LOT easier. Plus, your little one is now swapping day for night - 7 hours of day time naps is too much for a baby of that age, and it just shows that she is not getting the night time sleep she needs.
Totally agree with TRD - it's time for a bed time routine. I know you say you've tried this, but I would really recommend persevering with it. It will take at least 3 consecutive nights, of absolutely the same routine for her to start to get the idea, but could take a lot more than that. You will need to be absolutely consistent in what you do, so that she gets all the signals that it's time for bed.
For instance, at 6.30 I take M up for his bath. After his bath, I put a new nappy on, massage him (with the same oil each night, so he now associates that scent with bed time), dress him and then feed him. Into bed at 7. OK, that might be too early for you, so try a little bit later.
The first few nights you will probably either have to soothe her by the cot, or leave the room and continually go back in to soothe (better, since if you stay and soothe by the cot, she will keeping fussing to keep you there). It will be hard work and it won't happen overnight, but short-term 'pain'; long-term gain. Don't pick her up, and definitely do not take her out of her/your room. It was hard work for us when we started it at 6 weeks of age, but my God it's paid off. He's a happy, content baby when he goes to bed now, and goes straight off to sleep.
It really does sound like she's simply not getting enough sleep for a baby of her age. Every baby is obviously different, but most babies around that age need c. 3 hours of day-time naps and 12 hours of night-time sleep. Give or take.
And as TDR says, depriving her of sleep (either day or night) will only impact on her overall sleep. I mantra I have lived by is that 'sleep begets sleep'. Naff, I know, but the better sleep they get in the day (and by that I mean sufficient sleep, not taking over their night time sleep b/c they're not getting enough then), the better they will sleep at night.

Oh - one other thing. What does she sleep in?
A sleeping bag hinders their ability to the move around the cot to a certain extent. I then pin M down with either a sheet or blanket tightly tucked in over that, depending on how warm it is.
I know I'm probably teaching you to suck eggs here, but as TRD says, if she knows she can get away with stuff and manipulate you, i.e. spring to life when she gets put into her cot and then play for another few hours

Well last night was much better i put her in to her cot awake and then read a book for a bit, she eventually (15mins) laid down and slept. This was about 11.45pm. She slept until 5.30 and then wanted her dummy. I got up gave it to her and she went back to sleep until 7.30am then she had a bottle and then came in to bed with me and i fell back to sleep and she joined me till 10am. We went to group and got back and she went straight to sleep for an hour not like her at all.

She will now have an afternoon nap in about an hour or so for about three hours.

I am seriously taking all points on board and i guess that i just assumed she would find her own bedtime rather than having one forced on her. My partner agrees with you all that she goes to bed too late but nice of him not to say anything beforehand rather than after reading this to him.

We have always left her to decide for herself what it is that she wants and my main concern is that i'll get her suited and booted and in her bed at 9pm and she will want to get up at 3am when i will have only been in bed myself for 4 hours!

I have been taking the easy road i know and i know that i have to install some dicipline some where but didnt expect to have to do it so soon in her little life.

We will try something tonight. I'm out all night tomorrow so daddy will be looking after her.

I think i will go for bathtime and jimmies at 8/8.5 and then take her in to the bedroom and see if i can get her to drop off.

We are very unconventianl in our house our bedroom is quite cold so she has a duvet in her cot its a proper baby duvet and she sleeps in a onesy she likes to sleep on her side but frequently rolls from one side to the other during the night.

Marina:)

The idea that a small baby can manipulate you, or 'have you on', or that you make a rod for your own back by not forcing them to self-settle at a very very young age is one of the most depressing things I've heard. Yes, we all need some time to ourselves, but largely I've written off the first year and have carried my baby, slept with her and still breastfeed her 8 times a day. I had about 36 years of 'me' time before she came along so I can take it (just about, speak to me on a bad day though!)

My child psychologist friend says that sleep is largely developmental and will wax and wane according to development (like you say she's learning to crawl) and teething and general growing stages. Sure, routines aren't a bad idea -- more actually for the parents in some cases -- and some people's ability to 'take' some sleep disruption really vary so I fully understand why people do strict routines and gradual withdrawal and such. Pretty much all my friends with kids do and reckon I'm a right mug for doing attachment parenting.

I don't think for one minute that controlled crying, gradual withdrawal or whatever 'breaking' techniques destroy a child's soul if the child is in a loving environment, but some people (me included) don't go down that route for a reason.

My baby has been breastfed or slung to sleep for every nap since she was born. She sleeps with me and generally is a good sleeper. She was much better though from newborn to about 8 months and has been more easy to wake when she was standing, learning to talk and beginning to walk on furniture. And teething. It's a bitch, you can't really always tell when they are actually teething becaues the pain can start when they are well in the gums.

You could perhaps try an earlier bedtime and I'd agree with the others that she's getting way too much sleep in the day. I'd say two 1-2 hour naps morning and afternoon are good. But you don't necessarily need to move to a much earlier bedtime -- I have a couple of friends who hate the whole bedtime thing with a passion and take their babies to bed at around 10pm. Their babies co-sleep and sleep well. So it's not necessarily 'wrong' to do a later bedtime. When I lived in Asia noone did the UK bedtime thing of 7-8pm. It's largely cultural.

Oh, and dummies are such a pain in the arsepipe. I'm so glad I never bought one. What can happen is they fall out and the baby wakes up. Now you say, what of you Dorisbonkers, the human dummy? Well, I sleep next to her and half asleep can bfeed my baby without fully waking up. No way I could do that schlepping between rooms.

There are a few techniques you can use to encourage self-settling, as outlined in Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution (although I read it as a work of fiction) if you don't want to Ferber your baby.

You could also try slinging her before bedtime to wind her down. My husband can get my daughter off a treat doing this. I also do a bath - a massage (although try massaging a 10 month old) -- two bedtime stories and a b/feed before bed and she goes off easily almost every night.

Main thing bear in mind. This will pass. You'll get through it. It's often down to development and it will get better. My baby's sleep has recently got a lot better and I've not changed anything.

Good luck. I like you will be going to work part time in a few months as is Mr Bonkers so getting some good chunks of sleep is of paramount importance.

ETA. Please don't be down on yourself for what you describe as taking the 'easy' way. You've done it 'your' way and if your baby is largely happy then you're doing an excellent job (and infants are hard work!). Just as other people here are doing an excellent job with other methods. The idea of discipline is not something you have to worry about with a 6 month old!

I thought about not posting but just wanted to put another viewpoint across and to reassure that it is often a developmental blip.

If certain factors hadnt arisen we'd still be co-sleeping. She started kicking me relentlessly as she was drifting of and then started fidgeting through the night, then we started to worry about what if i was conked out and she rolled. We decided then that she needed to go back in her moses basket.

Shes been really good today her nap this afternoon turned out to be a real quicky and she's bouncing in her door thing now.


See i get really sad that mothers almost force a baby to sleep in a cold cot away from cuddles and love from weeks of age. I always wanted to go tribal with neave but only in certain aspects she kills me if i try and carry her in the sling now shes a chunk at 18lb of pure humph.
Generally everything is fine, sure she has her oddies like the 2am bedtime two nights ago but i can cope with that if its a one off. Lots of people said to me oo00 my god you've got your baby in the bed with you :O!!!!! You'll kill her you'll roll on her Or they hid it behind she'll never sleep in her own bed ever again. She does and every day she doesnt need to be cuddled to sleep EVER or need me to be with her for her to go to sleep but something has changed just recently and i cannot seem to sort it out.

Now i have three people tell me that she should be in a routine and she should be in bed early and then the bloke chips in and i start to question myself???

I think a long chat is in order.

Marina:)

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Its mostly sorted itself out now. Shes gone to bed the last two nights with no dummy but again woke at 4.30 asking for it. And then got up for her milk at 8.30am.

She actually went to bed last night right after her bath and her milk, i went up to bed about an hour and a half later. She was awake when i entered the bedroom, took her to bed with me and we tickled and cuddled for a little while and then she went back in her cot.

I dont think she needs any more sleep than shes getting. I do have terrible pangs of self doubt at times. Shes a happy baby and neither me nor my partner are unhappy with anything. He did say he thought she neded more sleep because she was going to bed late but didnt realise so do many other babies and kept thinking that she should be in bed by 7ish.

Marina:)

Hi Marina, Just to let you know you're not alone with the late bedtime thing. Lauren also goes to sleep at around 10.30 - 11.30, sleeps till 5-6 has a feed and then goes back to sleep till 9. It has fitted with our routine up to now but I do recognise that she really needs to be going to sleep earlier so we're working on getting her settled earlier (bath, massage etc) Sometimes in the middle of the night if she wont go to sleep I feel like such a bad mother that I made her fit into our routine but I know that she's happy and smiley and growing well so I'm trying not to beat myself up about it too much.

Good luck with Neave and keep repeating "it will all pass"

Yup its wa sa funny phase. But shes hit another one now. Now she will get in o her jimmies at 8ish sleep for a bit and then get up again. This is very reminisent on what she used to do before the cot.

Some times i think it will be nice to have her asleep in bed at 9pm so that i could have three or four hours totally to myself or "adult time" but shes not demanding at night shes happy to watch telly or play with her toys next to me. I wish i had a bigger bed, shes using it at night now to practise her crawling techiniques.

Marina:)

I'm having similar problems with my 9 mth old and have been for a month or so. I think it is developmental. My daughter was a bad sleeper but always had been. J was good turned bad like yours. I think they get to the stage where they just don't fancy going to sleep, staying asleep or going to bed and it is mostly habit. Some things like teeth, tummy aches & hunger get in the way, coupled with the fact that they can't tell you so you're never sure.

The only thing to do, which is what we did with R, was to sleep train her. I did follow a more attachment way of doing things up to 18mths until I physically couldn't function and my lowest point was crashing the car. I was crabby and bad-tempered and I owed it to everyone, inc R, to sort it out. My only regret is going on so long.

With J, I know he is leading me up the garden path but R is at school now so I don't quite know how to crack it without him making such a din he wakes her up and so I'm holding off til don't know when.

Good luck, though. If you do want to sleep train, don't feel bad about it.